How should the CFOs office overcome supply chain disruption

Madhurima Gupta: [0:05]
Welcome to the Mid-Market CFO Circle Live, a podcast powered by HighRadius. I’m your host, Madhurima Gupta. On mid-market CFO Circle podcast and community, we talk about the challenges that mid-market CFOs face, and we talk about solutions for them. We talk about a lot of emerging technology in different episodes as well. And today we are going to focus on how CFO’s office can overcome the supply chain disruptions that they’re facing. And we are gonna talk about this with reference, from the challenges that DALYTE Lighting solutions and Haynes Mechanical Systems are facing and how they’re overcoming it now. Because of supply chain, disruption, 44% of CFOs said that there have been shortages or delays in their company performances. And they’ve also seen their company’s costs go up by 5% or more. 32% of CFOs also reported that their 2021 sales fell while 28% expected future sales to also suffer in 2022.
So supply chain disruptions pose the biggest business risk. Even this year, that’s something that 84% of CFOs cited in a BDO survey with cyber risk, operational risk, geopolitical risks, and much more becoming top threats to the effective functioning of the supply chain. All of these are the biggest concerns that every office needs to solve today. So on that note, I’d like to welcome two great panelists today. Travis Smith and Patrick McFarlen are both working as CFOs for decades, and they’re here to share how they’re managing supply chain disruption at their respective offices. So I’d like to get started, uh, with introducing Travis. Travis is a finance expert, business consultant, and writer. He has extensive experience in C-Level operations in major industries like Manufacturing, SaaS, Warehousing Multi-Unit Retail, Restaurants, Professional Services, and the list goes on. He’s currently working as President and Chief Financial Officer at DAYLYTE, which is an AiA industries company. Hi Travis, welcome to the show.

Travis Smith: [2:23]
Thank you. Glad to be here.

Madhurima Gupta: [2:25]
And this is the second time we have Travis on the CFO Circle. So thank you for taking out time the second time, and I’m looking forward to an amazing discussion today. And up next, we have Patrick McFarlen who has over 20 years of experience in finance, accounting, and mergers and acquisitions. He’s the Chief Financial Officer at Haynes Mechanical System. He’s an expert in business valuation, business, transition planning, due diligence estate, and gift tax planning, uh, financial modeling, executive compensation, specialty tax, and other financial strategy and transaction services. So it gives me immense pleasure to invite Patrick to the Mid-Market CFO Circle for the first time. Welcome to the show, Patrick, how are you doing?

Patrick McFarlen: [3:11]
Doing well, thank you for having me.

Madhurima Gupta: [3:13]
Thank you for taking the time. And now, since you know, we’ve introduced both the speakers. My next step is to hop on to the questions that I have for both of them. So, Travis, my first question is for you, supply chain disruption has been causing troubles for companies of all sizes and industries. How have things been at DALYTE?

Travis Smith: [3:35]
Yeah, we’re really not any different than most organizations. And we are definitely feeling the impacts of the supply chain. For us as a manufacturing and construction company, we kind of feel it on both ends. So whether it is procuring materials to build our products or whether it is materials and labor shortages from our customer side, that cause their projects to get delayed, both of those are definitely causing challenges for DALYTE.

Madhurima Gupta: [4:07]
Understood. And Patrick, you’ve been a part of DALYTE previously as well. How are things different when it comes to the challenges of the supply chain disruption at Haynes mechanical?

Patrick McFarlen: [4:18]
Yeah, Haynes, it’s a little different, we’re more of a service company than a manufacturer. So where we’re seeing the delays is on the equipment and the units that we need to install. So with DALYTE, it was the raw goods that we would use for the skylights. Here at Haynes, it’s more of the finished goods and the units and how are they being affected from the supply chain. So it’s still being the same constraints, the same disruption, but instead of pieces of, you know, aluminum or glass, we’re waiting on units of, you know, chillers and boilers.

Madhurima Gupta: [4:54]
So since you are in services, um, you know, I feel that I have a question which will be very relevant for you. So have you seen any of your customers have a setback impacting your top-line revenue from them given the customer supply chain has been disrupted? And if that has happened, how are you catering to keep up the numbers that you were expecting to get from those customers?

Patrick McFarlen: [5:18]
Yeah, really the hard part here is trying to figure out when we will actually receive the equipment. So absolutely our top-line revenue has been affected. But it’s more on the growth. So we have seen a lot of growth, but, um, it could be better. So our backlog is higher than it’s ever been in our past. And so it’s really trying to plan when we get those units and will we have the manpower, then to install them and do the servicing that we need to do? So, yes, our top-line revenue is being affected. It really is looking at the future and trying to plan for when do we get it? And what does it look like when we do?

Madhurima Gupta: [5:49]
And what would you suggest should be preemptive measures that CFOs can take to retain let’s say these customers who are going through, uh, you know, supply chain disruption in the long run?

Patrick McFarlen: [6:00]
You know, for us, it’s a lot of communication. We’re communicating with all of our customers, trying to give them the most up-to-date information. And conversely, we’re also talking to our suppliers and trying to make sure that they’re giving us the best information. So we are communicating appropriately to our customers. And then on our side from a CFO and from a finance perspective, we’re being as conservative as possible so that we don’t expect units to come in and expect revenue and cash flow to come in and then be disappointed when it’s delayed another one a week or two weeks. So we’re conservative on the finance side and then we’re communicating with everybody as much as we can to make sure that everybody’s aware of where we are and what we’re trying to do to accomplish everything that we have.

Madhurima Gupta: [6:43]
So help me understand, you know, business structure a little better. So let’s say one of your customers is facing some supply chain disruptions. So I understand that, um, you know, you probably are providing them services for maintaining air conditioners, et cetera. Right. So if they’re not able to do it anymore and you know, of course, your revenues impacted because of it, how are you still drawing, uh, revenue out of it? Or is, is that a dead-end?

Patrick McFarlen: [7:13]
So that’s where we’re lucky since we’re basically a service company and, you know, we’ve been in the industry for, uh, over 50 years. We have, we have technicians, we have the best technicians out there. And so we’re able to go in there and still fix those units. So even if we can’t replace them when they should be, we can usually fix ’em and keep ’em running for another 4, 6, or 8 months. And so that’s where we’re seeing the growth is really on the servicing side and, and keeping the units running, even though, um, we can’t get the new unit that we need.

Madhurima Gupta: [7:43]
Understood. Travis, if I, um, you know, move this discussion to more about a company like DALYTE, where, you are, you know, manufacturing goods and you are, you probably are, you know, are dependent on certain suppliers in exchange who are giving you the raw material for it. So how do you think from your experience, a CFO can navigate through these disruptions to get hold of their cash flow better and have a safety blanket?

Travis Smith: [8:14]
Yeah, so, you know, Patrick talked a little bit about that, but really it comes down to the modeling abilities of the team and being able to step up out of the weeds and look at the big picture, um, tons and tons of communication across not only the organization but outside with suppliers and customers, um, you know, any kind of finance and accounting role that involves the forecasting budgeting, um, is it’s like having a crystal ball. Right. And so, um, to some extent you just take the best guess. However, I think the truly successful organizations have people at the top that can create the dynamic models, take data, make decisions based on that, and then kind of evolve and roll as they move forward and pick up additional pieces of information.

Madhurima Gupta: [9:01]
What else would you suggest can a CFO do to make sure that their supply chain, or maybe prepare better for any disruptions that are going to happen in the future, Travis?

Travis Smith: [9:15]
So, I mean, obviously, I think companies have to be really attuned to their physical responsibility. You know, it’s that dynamic of, do we grow, how much are we gonna invest in growth, versus, you know, when do we think we’ll get that right. So, like Patrick talked about, um, you know, it’s not necessarily a, if we’ll get it because we’re contractually obligated on or contractually, uh, tied into projects for our units, it’s kind of a win. And so, um, you know, we have to be really physically responsible. And sometimes that means, you know, running leaner staffs, uh, looking at automation opportunities, uh, whether that be, you know, billing automation or collection automation or even operational automation to be able to, you know, kinda weather the storm and flow with the ups and downs of the cash flow that come from the disruptions.

Madhurima Gupta: [10:10]
You mentioned having the right relationship with suppliers. So how can, um, finance teams have, you know, the right relationship build with their suppliers, especially, uh, at a given point like this when there’s so much stress overall?

Travis Smith: [10:29]
Yeah. So a couple of tools that I’ve used in, in past is, um, you know, basically, and I get that COVID, it’s caused a little bit of disruption to the in-person stuff, but establishing a relationship and opening up the communication, um, whether it be with the finance team, the purchasing team, um, or even, you know, at the CFO level from the leader of the organization to the leader of the organization. You know when as a customer, I’m looking to be a good business partner with my vendors, um, they appreciate that, right? Because my business ups and downs are gonna affect my orders and that therefore is gonna affect their business. And so reaching out, having those conversations, just open, honest, transparent conversations, here’s where we’re at. This is what we’re seeing, um, you know, what are you guys seeing on your side? Everybody for the most part is willing to have those conversations. And I think it really deepens the relationship and the trust.

Madhurima Gupta: [11:24]
Got that. And Patrick, what have you been doing differently post-pandemic to manage your relationships better with your customers and even, you know, your group of technicians given that, I’m sure given COVID, your technicians were probably not able to venture out as much as they worked in an ideal world situation. So how has that affected your business and how, what have you done to overcome it?

Patrick McFarlen: [11:51]
Sort of what Travis is talking about is having those relationships prior to having, um, prior to COVID. You know, if you waited until COVID to start creating relationships, it was difficult. But especially, and I know with DALYTE, we were doing the same thing prior to COVID. We were trying to create those relationships and make sure that we had an open line of communication on both sides. The same thing as here with Haynes, where, um, we’ve had long-lasting relationships with all of our suppliers. And so through the pandemic, we were able to maintain those relationships, even though they weren’t face-to-face meetings. As for our technicians, you know, the first thing we did is we really made sure that they were safe, cause they were still entering buildings and facilities. We do a lot of work with essential facilities and so they still had to go in there and make sure the hospital systems were working appropriately.
So we invested a lot in PPE and make sure that they had the equipment that they needed so that they felt safe when they were in those facilities. So the good data is our technicians were all very healthy. We kept them safe and we have a good culture. So we were always transparent. We were always communicating with them on the latest and the best information we had. And so, um, and we were vulnerable. We would be told them if we didn’t know what was going on, we were doing the best we could. And we were able to adapt and be flexible with them and make sure that they knew that their best interest was always at our, in our hearts.

Madhurima Gupta: [13:15]
So I’m gonna move the discussion a little from supply chain disruption to talking about processes at your offices, right? So when the pandemic hit, were there certain processes that you regretted not being automated? And this is a question for both of you. So, were these processes that were not automated and you know, you want to now automate first because you kind of understood that, Hey, this was an area which was overlooked, but this is an area that actually needed attention from, or, you know, to be automated?

Travis Smith: [13:50]
When you kind of look at the finance side of things, it’s, you know, how can we make sure that we’re billing efficiently, um, accurately and timely, um, because that’s really where it starts, right? And so if you’re not getting your invoices out quickly, um, and you don’t have all the right information or you’re not communicating, you know, effectively what it is that you’re invoicing for any kind of confusion that you create, um, with your customers, obviously delays cash flow. And that’s just something that, um, you know, really can’t happen. And so for us, it was really taking a look at, you know, are there ways to be more effective? We invested pretty heavily in some software to help us be considerably more accurate when it came to our invoicing to be able to provide details around the projects so that when our customers got it, they knew exactly what they were being invoiced for. And that helps speed up their payments tremendously, which has been a great benefit to us.

Madhurima Gupta: [14:48]
How about you Patrick?

Patrick McFarlen: [14:50]
So obviously I was at DALYTE when COVID the pandemic first came out. And one thing that we were a little flat-footed on is we weren’t, we didn’t really have a flexible remote type workforce. And so it was hard for us to really convert to remote. We had a lot of desktops, you know, employees where they had to be at their desk in order to actually get into the network and get onto the servers. And so the software that Travis is talking about is obviously a SaaS-type software. So then you can work remotely and you can continue to go. That being said, when, when I joined Haynes, you know, their overall culture had been moving more remote, more flexible for the workforce. And so the good thing is when the pandemic hit them, it was a much more, okay, we’ve been sort of thinking about this, let’s test it. Right. And so, they at least weren’t, they were far ahead of where we were at daylight, um, when the pandemic hit. And so they were able to test it and it actually worked. And so, same thing, remote employees, you know, our main office was closed down for a few weeks. And then the technicians, it was a hundred percent about how to keep them safe, cause those aren’t people that can work remotely. They have to be in the facilities, they have to be working on the units. And so, um, it was really twofold. We had the infrastructure and we had been thinking about it prior to the pandemic. Pandemic just forced us to try it a little faster than we wanted to maybe. And then, so we were able to really focus on our technicians and make sure that they were safe in a world where nobody really knew what safe meant.

Madhurima Gupta: [16:26]
My other question, you know, coming back to the supply chain disruption topic. So do you think that this is also driving inflation and if that’s the case, how is that, uh, impacting businesses at the moment? Let’s start with you, Patrick.

Patrick McFarlen: [16:36]
There’s a lot of things affecting inflation. That’s a hour-long conversation on its own, but obviously, supply chain disruption is creating inflation or it’s at least affecting it. You know, there’s a lot of other things on just fiscal policy and what we did through the pandemic, but the supply chain is obviously creating a delay in supply, which obviously just further increase the demand for that supply. And so, um, you know, it’s impacting our business, it’s impacting everything we do. It’s impacting price increases and the good and bad is usually we have good communication with our suppliers and we’re getting notified of those 30, 60, and 90 days before those price increases are coming through. But there’s times where we get an email from our supplier saying, Hey, we just got a mandatory, 10% increase and it’s going to affect you guys next month. And so it’s up to us then to push that and talk to our customers and say, how do we realign our everybody and make sure that we’re all, you know, going in the right direction. Absolutely.

Madhurima Gupta: [17:38]
How about you, Travis? What has your experience been?

Travis Smith: [17:42]
So, it’s definitely different for me in this industry, um than industries I’ve worked for in the past. So we work a lot with large projects and the large projects have a very long sales cycle and a long execution cycle. So the demand that has been placed on the, you know, product and with the great resignation and the price increases that we’re seeing, you know, we may sign a contract today to do a project, but that project doesn’t kick off for 6, 9, 12 months. And so obviously with the rate of change in the world right now, from an economic standpoint, what I’m paying today, when I sign that contract is almost guaranteed to be, uh, less than what I’m gonna be paying when it comes time to actually order the materials. So for us, we’re getting very kind of, I would say creative in that we’ve gotta be flexible in the types of agreements that we’re, we’re designing and conversations we’re having with our customers. You know, we’ve gotta build in price escalators into our contracts. If somebody says, you know, Hey, you know, we’re gonna delay this project, then there’s price escalators that gotta come into effect because what we bid that project at to be profitable today if they delay us six months, you know, we’re not gonna be as profitable. And if that’s happening across the board, it creates serious hardship, financial hardship on the organization. So, you know, it’s about having those conversations with the customers. It’s about protecting ourselves from a legal standpoint, with what we’re putting in our quotes and what we’re putting in our contracts. But it is absolutely, you know, tough on organizations, um, on all sides, right? Our suppliers are feeling it so they push it to us. We feel it. So we have to push it to our customers. Ultimately at the end, the consumer is the one who really kind of feels it. So, um, it, it’s definitely different unique in this industry where we’ve got these long projects,

Madhurima Gupta: [19:36]
All the companies that are right now going under, what would you suggest is the best way for companies like yourself, uh, you know, should be doing today to determine who should they be partnering with and, you know, be able to evaluate the risk associated with it better?

Travis Smith: [19:53]
That’s where I’m extremely blessed because I’ve got a gentleman like Patrick in my corner who can help me with some of the advanced modeling and with his experience in the M&A world and what he’s seen, you know, over the course of his career. But I would say everybody needs a mentor and everybody needs to surround themselves with a circle of people that are smarter than them. If I’m sitting in a room where I’m the smartest guy, then I’m sitting in the wrong room. And you know, part of that is I also gotta, I also have to be able to check my ego a little bit and understand that I need support. I need to have people that I can lean on and being willing to be a little bit vulnerable and ask people for help and support. But I think it’s just critical, um, that people really step outside of themselves, um, for the good of the company and, and kind of put that ego aside and, and go find people to help support him. You know, like I do with Patrick and others.

Madhurima Gupta: [20:48]
How about you Patrick, now that, you know, Travis has told us that you are the go-to person for him, who is your go-to person?

Patrick McFarlen: [20:55]
He has to find new friends. That’s, what I would say. No. No, but, and he’s absolutely right. It’s checking your ego. It should be a team effort. Obviously in my background, I’ve worked with a lot of different companies, um, and especially in the M&A world, there’s a lot of egos and there’s a lot of people that wanna be the smartest person in the room. I always told my client that I was never the smartest person in the room. I could just put, you know, bring together the dots. And so, that’s extremely important to make sure that you’re listening, making sure that you listen more than you talk, um, and making sure that you have the right team around you, that, um, is thinking about different ways, um, the company’s working. So, you want different personalities and different opinions. You don’t want everybody to think the same. And that’s how you didn’t get through things like this, where everybody’s open to a lot of different situations and you’re able to look at it and, and figure out the best result. Cause I can tell you that, that there’s no right answer. There’s no silver bullet. It’s a combination of a lot of different opinions and a lot of different answers.

Madhurima Gupta: [21:54]
If I talk about your suppliers, Patrick, or, you know, Travis, both of you for that matter. So how do you, um, with economy being volatile with supply chain disruptions coming into the picture, how do you assess their creditworthiness in such a scenario? Let’s say, you are procuring certain things. You need to know if they will be able to cater to you in the future and map your, um, you know, relationships according then maybe look for more vendors. How do you manage all of that?

Travis Smith: [22:24]
So from our standpoint, you know, we run credit checks, not only on customers but on suppliers, and take a look at that piece of it. And then it really goes back to kind of how do you qualify, especially a vendor, right? So, normally in my past, what we’ve done is we would take our specifications that we need. We would send it out to a couple of different vendors. We would do a request for a quote, and then before bringing somebody on board, we would actually go meet with them in person at their facility, lay eyes on the facility, talk to the people, kind of see what their capabilities are, hear about other projects, ask for customer references and make sure that we’ve got a good solid partner. With COVID, you know, obviously, that changed some of the in-person stuff. However, you know, the majority of that stuff can still be done, even if it’s done remotely. And then the last piece of it really is requesting, um, you know, basically what I would consider kind of a first sample where they’ve gotta produce the material to our specifications, send it to us for testing. We do a full quality evaluation of it. And then once we have determined that, yes, in fact, they can produce the materials to our specs, then we go forward at all times when possible, we like to be dual sourced. So that if we get into a situation where one company’s struggling, maybe they push lead times, you know, maybe they’re having supply chain issues that we’ve gotta reserve as well. That’s not always possible depending on the industry, but almost every industry and every supplier can be dual sourced, which is critically important.

Madhurima Gupta: [23:59]
How about you, Patrick?

Patrick McFarlen: [24:01]
Yeah, I would agree a hundred percent with Travis, obviously, especially with my time at DALYTE. We, you know had to make sure that we were dual sourced on a couple of our suppliers and one pushed their lead time way out. And we were able to shift and move over to another supplier. So I think number one, that relationship and we keep on going back to relationship and communication, but having those relationships and being able to communicate it, you know, going under as a no longer in business. Luckily we haven’t had to, um, you know, work with that on our side. I don’t think DALYTE has had any suppliers go under neither has Haynes. And so we, at least haven’t been able to live or haven’t had to live through that. But for us, it’s really what happens if the quality goes down or if lead times go out, is more, what do we do there? And that’s dual source.

Madhurima Gupta: [24:52]
And, Travis for your customers with supply chain disruptions that you may have seen at your end because your suppliers, your vendors were not able to provide you raw material apart from communication with them and educating them, or, you know, just sharing that, Hey, this is currently going under, what are the other precautionary measures that you’ve taken in, you know, taken at, uh, DALYTE that’s gonna help you in time to come.

Travis Smith: [25:20]
It’s kind of a twofold. One is the dual-source. And the second one, which is much tougher on the business is we’ve increased our inventory levels. So that, you know, while it’s hard on cash flow, um, you know, it is something that we have decided to be very strategic about increasing our inventory levels, uh, so that we could offset the lead time changes that may occur. You know, if we’re, you know, basing all of our forecasts on being able to get material in six weeks and they go to 12, we just have to have a little bit more material on the shelf. Again, it comes back to that finance crystal ball, which is always cloudy and, and difficult to read. So some of it is you just kind of have to go with your gut. Sometimes, you know, it’s a good call and sometimes it turns out not to work so great, but, um, it really is, you know, the communication, the dual sourcing and increasing our inventory levels.

Madhurima Gupta: [26:20]
All right. And, in terms of your duration of delivery, right, given that you now have inventories that are well stopped, uh, it comes with additional cost, right? Because cash flow is right now stagnant to some extent because that money is right, like there as your, uh, you know, goods there. So, I mean, are you then planning to maybe change your delivery duration or, you know, any strategic decisions at that level?

Travis Smith: [26:50]
So a couple of pieces really for us is, um, we bill more often and we bill faster, uh, we also build deposits. So we’ll collect a deposit on a project once we get into the project and it’s been approved, and then we will do regular progress billings along with that. So as we use materials or we percent complete a project, we want to invoice right away to help speed up that cash flow piece of it.

Madhurima Gupta: [27:17]
So, you know, as per a recently done survey by Deloitte CFOs were asked how their supply chain dynamics will change or might change in the next three years. Their responses ranged from diversification of their resources, uh, which is like about 69% of CFOs said that they expect to increase it, uh, to greater vertical integration. And you know, this is about like 23% of the CFO cited that they’re going to be increasing or decreasing sourcing from various regions within North America and expected to see more increases from other regions. So is that something that resonates with you?

Travis Smith: [28:00]
It does on our side, um, you know, there is a lot of opportunities and a lot of places where materials can be sourced from again, you know, we kind of go back to this, right. That’s where collaboration becomes a huge piece, both internal and external of the company. You know, as Patrick talked about, um, you know, you’ve gotta have a lot of different viewpoints, a lot of different experiences. Everybody brings something unique to that table, especially with their buried experiences and backgrounds. And so, you know, having those conversations, being open interceptive to hearing, um, from different people with different perspectives, you know, somebody in their past life may have said, Hey, we ran into something similar and we did this. And that’s a light bulb that, you know, a CFO or even a COO, didn’t necessarily have to go off on their own. So I think that’s critically important, um, that you really increase that internal collaboration within organizations.

Madhurima Gupta: [28:58]
Understood. And Patrick, what is your opinion on that? How do you expect supply chain dynamics to shift in the next three years because of these disruptions?

Patrick McFarlen: [29:08]
No, I agree with Travis a hundred percent. I don’t think I would add anything really is it’s collaboration. It’s really looking at the risk areas of the company and saying, how do you mitigate that risk? And that’s at the CFO level, that’s the majority of what we’re trying to do is mitigate risk. And so, um, it is exactly what that study showed is this diversification of your suppliers, it’s collaboration with your suppliers, communicating and really making sure that, um, you know, you’re looking at as many different risk areas as you can and mitigate ’em you can’t, you know, eliminate ’em, but what you can do is mitigate ’em.

Madhurima Gupta: [29:44]
And, um, let’s say if I ask for three tips that you’d like to give your peers at the CFO office to alter and adapt to this, expected change or shift in supply chain dynamics, what would those three tips be? We’ll start with you, Patrick.

Patrick McFarlen: [30:00]
Number one, I think it’s communication, obviously, both Travis and I have talked about it a couple of times throughout this podcast, but, um, you know, really talk to everybody, talk to your suppliers, talk to your customers, make sure that you’re communicating as much as possible. And then when you think you’re communicating enough, do it again. And rarely try to keep everybody aligned. The other one is be open, be open to change. The world will never go back to pre-pandemic. We’ve decided that here’s that, um, flexible work schedules, remote work schedules, um, you know, thinking safety first, those things will never go back to pre-pandemic. It’s, you always have to be thoughtful and think of ways to be, you know, to change and adapt to the new environment. And then, you know, I guess my last one is surround yourself with good people and smart people and mentors, and really listen more than you talk and, and collaborate with those people. And know that your answer might be the right one, but it’s not always the right one. And usually, it’s a combination of a couple of different areas.

Madhurima Gupta: [31:06]
Patrick. So, you know, these three tips are great tips. The way I look at it, I mean, you’ve worked at so many different companies and I’m sure when the inflation last hit us, I think 2007 around how have things been different from that time versus this time?

Patrick McFarlen: [31:23]
I would say, with the pandemic and the supply chain disruption is the biggest difference, right? An economic recession that turns into, I mean, you see the inflation because of that, um, is different than a pandemic, right? And so, um, I think just leading into the economic times that we’re in right now is different. And so, you know, you can’t look at, there’s no playbook. You can’t look historically and say, oh, well, 2007, this is what we did, and this is how we adapted. So we’ll just do that again. And we’ll be okay. Its leading into it is different. And so that means coming out of it will be different.

Madhurima Gupta: [32:02]
And Travis, what is your opinion in terms of the three tips that I asked for your peers at the CFOs offices to alter and adapt to this new normal?

Travis Smith: [32:16]
Yeah, I think the first tip is to be flexible, be willing to look at things from a different perspective and take different things into account than what you’ve done in the past, you know, kind of as Patrick just alluded to, um, I think the second part is, you know, make sure that you really, uh, have the right team, um, and that you’re surrounded with the right people. And then the third piece would be, you know, take a very hard look at how things are done today, uh, internal with the new organization and if there are opportunities to automate or optimize things, um, and don’t let fear drive your decision making, um, you know, sometimes great leaders have to make the hardest decisions and, uh, you gotta make those decisions quick and timely, or it can really hurt the organization. So, those would be the three things that I would say are probably the best advice I could give.

Madhurima Gupta: [33:10]
Great, thank you so much. I think those were some really good tips that I’m sure the listeners are gonna benefit from. And on that note, we’ve also come to the end of the show. So thank you so much both of you for taking time and talking to us about the challenges that you faced at your respective companies and how you’ve been leading teams to make sure that you’re able to manage, you know, safely out of these challenges. So thank you so much once again, and I hope to have you back on the CFO circle sometime soon again. And in the meantime, uh, please stay safe and stay tuned.